Subjects:
[11/Feb/2003:20:59:53] <Father Phillip> Greetings one and all!!!!
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[11/Feb/2003:21:47:57] <Father Phillip> molbol14: Is there an explanation
about why Catholics intercede to God through the saints as opposed to ONLY Jesus
Christ as in Romans 8:34?
[11/Feb/2003:21:48:17] <Father Phillip> sure, there's an explanation
and i'm sure you'll think it's very cool :-)
[11/Feb/2003:21:48:37] <Father Phillip> basically it goes sort
of like this:
[11/Feb/2003:21:48:54] <Father Phillip> as Christians we believe
that death does not end life
[11/Feb/2003:21:49:10] <Father Phillip> death is the door through
which we move into eternal life with God
[11/Feb/2003:21:49:45] <Father Phillip> in THIS life, i am very
comfortable asking another Christian to pray for me when I'm in need of special
intercessory support
[11/Feb/2003:21:50:16] <Father Phillip> so, when a person "dies"
-- that person is still very much alive in Christ -- and since my faith gives
me that absolute conviction,
[11/Feb/2003:21:50:32] <Father Phillip> i feel very comfortable
asking a person who is alive in Christ to pray for me
[11/Feb/2003:21:50:46] <Father Phillip> that's really all asking
a saint to pray for me is ...
[11/Feb/2003:21:51:40] <Father Phillip> the saint is just a person
who is alive in Christ -- one who has gone through that "door" of
death -- and so i can ask a saint to pray for me just like i would ask a brother
or sister in Christ who is alive in this life to pray for me...
The Way Catholics Use the Bible
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[11/Feb/2003:21:52:44] <Father Phillip> molbol14: I have a class
and the teacher is Lutheran... he always is criticizing Catholics, and he challenged
us to find in the bible proof that we can ask saints to pray for us, especially
when Jesus should be our only intercessor
[11/Feb/2003:21:53:21] <Father Phillip> well, that sort of misses
the point of how we as Catholics use the Bible...
[11/Feb/2003:21:55:00] <Father Phillip> as Catholics we don't feel
called to "prove" our beliefs from particular verses in the Bible
[11/Feb/2003:21:55:35] <Father Phillip> rather we see the Bible
as one of the two great gifts of God to the Church through which God reveals
the divine will
[11/Feb/2003:21:56:29] <Father Phillip> it's both Scripture AND
Tradition that -- for Catholics -- help us to find God's direction and guidance
for us
[11/Feb/2003:21:57:04]
<Father Phillip> molbol14: I'm Catholic and have always prayed
to the saints to help me in times of need, but where did that belief that the
saints intercede for us come from then?
[11/Feb/2003:21:57:24] <Father Phillip> well, that belief came
sort of from what i was saying earlier
[11/Feb/2003:21:58:18] <Father Phillip> Catholics have always believed
that the Communion of Saints -- remember that phrase from the Creed we pray
every sunday at Mass? -- extends to all the Christians alive right now but that
it also extends to Christians who are alive-in-Christ in life-beyond-death
[11/Feb/2003:21:58:45] <Father Phillip> so Catholic Christians
have, from the earliest times, felt that praying to Saints was perfectly reasonable
and acceptable
[11/Feb/2003:21:59:21] <Father Phillip> it really wasn't until
around the 16th century (right after Martin Luther!!!) that the practice of
inviting the saints to intercede for us came into question
[11/Feb/2003:21:59:26] <Father Phillip> molbol14: but, it's more
like praying "through" saints right?
[11/Feb/2003:21:59:33] <Father Phillip> yeah, i think that's about
right
[11/Feb/2003:21:59:49] <Father Phillip> we invite the saints to
pray for us from their 'place' in heaven
"Defending" One's Faith in an Academic Environment
[11/Feb/2003:22:00:17] <Father Phillip> molbol14: I just feel like
my teacher is always attacking my faith, and I don't really know what to say
in its defense
[11/Feb/2003:22:00:36] <Father Phillip> well, i don't think you
should feel compelled to defend your faith
[11/Feb/2003:22:00:47] <Father Phillip> he or she really doesn't
have any right to attack your faith
[11/Feb/2003:22:01:11] <Father Phillip> but you should know your
faith well enough that you are able to feel at home in what you believe
[11/Feb/2003:22:01:22] <Father Phillip> none of us has ever "finished"
learning about our faith
[11/Feb/2003:22:01:33] <Father Phillip> for Goodness sake! our
faith is all about GOD!!!
[11/Feb/2003:22:01:38] <Father Phillip> and God is infinite
[11/Feb/2003:22:01:40] <Father Phillip> and we are finite
[11/Feb/2003:22:02:07] <Father Phillip> so our finite minds can
NEVER know everything about our inifinite God
[11/Feb/2003:22:02:15] <Father Phillip> so, you should just keep
on learning
[11/Feb/2003:22:02:21] <Father Phillip> which is what i think you're
doing
[11/Feb/2003:22:02:50] <Father Phillip> and if your teacher "attacking"
your faith makes you learn more and dig deeper, then maybe your teacher is doing
you a favor in her/his "attack"!!!
[11/Feb/2003:22:03:18] <Father Phillip> molbol14: I totally agree,
I just don't feel good about the way he criticizes me, and it bothers me that
I can't say anything, especially because i went to Catholic school for 13 years
[11/Feb/2003:22:03:59] <Father Phillip> well, if the professor
is actually attacking you or criticizing you personally, then you have every
right to confront him on this issue
[11/Feb/2003:22:04:07] <Father Phillip> it's called an "ad
hominem" attack
[11/Feb/2003:22:04:34] <Father Phillip> however, if he's just jousting
intellectually with you -- trying to get you to examine your assumptions, then
he's probably doing his job!
[11/Feb/2003:22:04:51] <Father Phillip> but if he's criticizing
you or attacking you, he's stepped over the line
[11/Feb/2003:22:04:55] <Father Phillip> but
[11/Feb/2003:22:05:31] <Father Phillip> just because you went to
a Catholic school for 13 years, that's no guarantee that you know all that you
need to know -- you need to keep on learning!!! :-)
[11/Feb/2003:22:05:36] <Father Phillip> molbol14: well, the class
is supposed to be a discussion, but he runs it more like a lecture. When he
was talking about the saints, he didn't even give us a chance to tell him why
be believe what we do
[11/Feb/2003:22:06:24] <Father Phillip> if other students in your
class feel that the professor is not running the class in the way that it was
"advertised", then y'all should think about going to him and discussing
the issue with him
[11/Feb/2003:22:06:48] <Father Phillip> but again, he may just
be aggressive and incisive and he may just want you to develop some of those
skills
The Way Catholics Use the Bible, cont.
[11/Feb/2003:22:07:38] <Father Phillip> molbol14: well, it has
only been five weeks, so maybe in the future the class will change keys... we're
done reading the book of romans after this week
[11/Feb/2003:22:08:04] <Father Phillip> well romans is a 'particularly'
Protestant book -- at least according to some interpreters :-)
[11/Feb/2003:22:08:47] <Father Phillip> molbol14: yeah, i've noticed
that
[11/Feb/2003:22:09:18] <Father Phillip> that's the problem with
taking any one verse or one chapter or even one book of the Bible and letting
it set the tone for all your religious belief and practice
[11/Feb/2003:22:09:42] <Father Phillip> we need the Tradition,
the community to help us find the "right" tenor and tone for our use
of the Scripture
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:20] <Father Phillip> molbol14: well.. you've
really helped me to find words for my own thoughts and beliefs.. thank you!
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:32] <Father Phillip> golly gee whiz...*blush*
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:33] <Father Phillip> thanks!
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:39] <Father Phillip> very glad to help!!!
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:47] <Father Phillip> and hang in there
[11/Feb/2003:22:10:52] <Father Phillip> you're doing well!
[11/Feb/2003:22:11:03] <Father Phillip> blessings!
[11/Feb/2003:22:12:28] <Father Phillip> oh --
[11/Feb/2003:22:12:38] <Father Phillip> and check out the FAQ Library
[11/Feb/2003:22:12:46] <Father Phillip> a lot of these issues are
addressed in there
[11/Feb/2003:22:12:56] <Father Phillip> under the "Subject"
"Bible"
[11/Feb/2003:23:00:15] <Father Phillip> well, ladies and gentlemen
-- this sure has been fun...a good night to one and all!
[11/Feb/2003:23:00:44] <Father Phillip> blessings!